Tuesday, June 19, 2012

Spurious Guns - 1

While we have dwelled on the manufacturing process and cost of manufacture of firearms, there is another interesting related topic that we will study today: spurious guns. Our note on spurious guns comes from W.W. Greener's "The Gun and its Development", a book that was published a long time ago and is in the public domain. In one of its chapters, he devotes a small section to spurious guns.

During the latter half of the 19th century, as some English firearm manufacturers were becoming famous worldwide for their quality of product, fake copies of their products also began to hit the market. Many of the fake manufacturers were based in Belgium, though some were based in England as well.

In W.W. Greener's words:
The spurious gun may be either a gun represented as being of quality it is not, or as the production of a maker other than the real one.  After taking all into consideration, it is the first class which is the most dangerous to the unwary buyer. The vapid platitudes of the salesman spread a glamour over the transaction, and the sportsman purchases a gun which will trouble him more and more as he gets to know it.  Against the purchase of this class of gun the sportsman must always be on his guard.


The second class of gun is simply a forgery.  Belgian guns are sent to England to be proved, or the English proof marks are imitated; "English fine twist" is engraved upon the rib, or any maker's name is put on to the order of the importer.


Some makers do not scruple to state in their lists that they will put upon their productions "made in London, or in Eibar, or in Brescia," or in any other town whose manufacturers have a better reputation that their own. Never buy a gun without the maker's name upon it.


All the leading makers or their retailers now advertise, so that the exact name of the maker wished is easily obtained; see that the gun bears this name, and rightly spelled, for the change of a letter is often made, the maker of the forgery thereby thinking that his liability is lessened, and foreign forgers make dreadful havoc with English names, whereas probably no careful maker has ever turned out a gun wrongly or incorrectly named, so far as his name goes.  As to the more general forgeries, they will be found to be changes run upon the name of a maker of reputation.  No one would forge "Smith" or "Jones", and happy the gunmakers who possess such names; but names as "Greener" will be spelled "Greenen," "Purdey" as "Purdy," "W.C. Scott & Son" as "J.N. Scotts Son," whilst of the imitations of "Westley Richards" the name is legion. The alteration in initials, or the Christian name, or the address is more frequent, and all "Horace Greener," "Albert Greener," J.H., W.H., A.H., and other H. Greener guns are practically forgeries.


Let us now look at some of these forgeries. First up, we have a Greener imitation shotgun, made in Belgium:


Click on images to enlarge.

First thing to notice in the first image is that the name of the maker is "C. Greener", not "W.W. Greener". Secondly, there is no address on the top rib: A genuine W.W. Greener of that era would have been marked with the manufacturer name AND address (e.g. "W.W. Greener 68 Haymarket London & St. Mary's Square, Birmingham."). The second big giveaway is in the second picture. Those are Belgian proof marks, not English, the oval with the letters "ELG" and the other mark that looks like a pole standing on a pyramid show that it was proved in Belgium. But W.W. Greener was an English manufacturer, so it would have had marks of either the Birmingham or London proof houses if it was genuine. These proof marks are normally hidden by the stock when the gun is in an assembled state (as the proof marks were usually put there in order to not mar the beauty of guns), so the buyer would not necessarily notice them until much later on.

The next image we will look at is a fake Westley Richards:
Click on image to enlarge

This one is pretty tricky because the engraving on the plate says "W. Richards". However, a real Westley Richards shotgun would say "Westley Richards", not "W. Richards." To complicate matters, there was a genuine firm named William Richards based in Liverpool, who manufactured shotguns under the name "W. Richards". This company made some quality shotguns and is still in business to this present day. However, there were also many more Belgian made "W. Richards" fakes made during the late 1800s. Usually, guns with barrels marked "London Fine Twist" are fakes.

The problem got so bad that in 1887, the British magazine, "Shooting", conducted interviews with genuine English manufacturers to identify the markings of genuine guns. As per that article, some of the details are:
W. Richards, Liverpool: "All my guns have 'W. Richards Old Hall Street' on the barrels, 'W. Richards' on locks, Guards are numbered."
W. Richards, Preston, Lancashire: (Editor's note: This is another branch of the same firm above. At one point, they had a branch in Preston as well as Liverpool) "All my guns have 'W. Richards, 44 Fishergate, Preston', on the top rib, 'W. Richards' on the lock plates, all guards are numbered."
Westley Richards, London and Birmingham: "'Westley Richards' and appropriate address on rib (or Westley Richards & Co on lower grade guns). All guns have 'Westley Richards' on lock plates and bear the 'Westley Richards triangle' trade mark."

Therefore, a gun that doesn't have some of the details above is likely a fake.

Many of the fake Belgian-made W. Richards guns were imported into the US by H&D Folsom Arms Co. of New York, which was a large American sporting goods retailer in the late 1800s until the 1950s or so.

Now, we will look at some more fake Westley Richards products:


Click on images to enlarge

As we can see in the first picture, the lock has the word "Richard" instead of "Westley Richards". In the second picture of the same firearm, we can see Belgian proof marks, as in the fake Greeners above (i.e. The letters "ELG" in an oval and the pyramid with a pole on top).

Now for a whole slew of fake Westley Richards products:





Click on images to enlarge

As was mentioned by W.W. Greener above, the imitations of Westley Richards are legendary. Observe the variants of the brand name on the lock plates: "W. Richard of Belgium", "A. Richard", "Rikard" and "Rickard".

In our next post, we will study more spurious guns and the strategies developed by unscrupulous manufacturers in trying to sell them.

13 comments:

  1. I have recently purchased what I suppose is an Old English Shotgun. It has engraved on both locks the word "Westley". I would like to send you the photos to see if you can help me to identify it. Apparently it is of English manufacture, with barrels made in Birmingham. I would like to know if there was any gunsmith named "Westley" alone (I mean no “Westley Richards”). What I have to do to send the photos?
    Sincerely
    Claudio Fernandez from Argentina

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    Replies
    1. Hi Claudio,
      I don't believe there is any English gunmaker named "Westley" alone (at least, not a famous one). Also, it was common for Belgian manufacturers to put meaningless words like "English Twist" on the barrels in big letters, to give the impression that the firearm was made in England. A good clue to the origin of the firearm can be the proof marks, which should be visible if you disassemble the barrels from the stock. If you see Belgian proof marks there, it is almost certainly a fake. See http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/2011/01/testing-firearms-proof-test.html for details of what English and Belgian proof marks look like. Please post the pictures of the firearm, especially the proof marks here, if you need help identifying it.

      Sincerely,
      The Editor

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    2. Dear Editor
      Thaks for the answer, I have a lot of pictures of this gun, but I do not know wath I have to do to send you thouse. Do you have any private e-mail that I can use to send them?
      Thanks for your effort and excuse me.
      Sincerly,
      Claudio

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    3. Hi Claudio,
      You can probably publish the pictures on a free image sharing site (such as http://postimage.org/) and then post the URL links here. That way, the images can be seen by other readers of this blog and maybe someone will know more about it.

      Sincerely,
      The Editor

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    4. Dear Editor,

      I send you the URL links and I hope that thouse will help to identify it.

      [url=http://postimg.org/image/cqil6k90t/][img]http://s22.postimg.org/cqil6k90t/IMG_20150414_213134188_1.jpg[/img][/url]

      [url=http://postimg.org/image/7ql4ym3e5/][img]http://s22.postimg.org/7ql4ym3e5/IMG_20150414_213235458_1.jpg[/img][/url]

      [url=http://postimg.org/image/3kswv8gkx/][img]http://s16.postimg.org/3kswv8gkx/IMG_20150414_213053885_1.jpg[/img][/url]

      [url=http://postimg.org/image/vgyllip69/][img]http://s16.postimg.org/vgyllip69/IMG_20150414_213116846_1.jpg[/img][/url]

      [url=http://postimg.org/image/n23utt4vf/][img]http://s17.postimg.org/n23utt4vf/IMG_20150414_212518387_1.jpg[/img][/url]

      [url=http://postimg.org/image/u95jpofsb/][img]http://s17.postimg.org/u95jpofsb/IMG_20150414_212532439_1.jpg[/img][/url]

      [url=http://postimg.org/image/mvq5qpvqj/][img]http://s17.postimg.org/mvq5qpvqj/IMG_20150414_212554318_1.jpg[/img][/url]

      [url=http://postimg.org/image/62uwejtnv/][img]http://s17.postimg.org/62uwejtnv/IMG_20150414_212949383_1.jpg[/img][/url]

      [url=http://postimg.org/image/lpm5rx7fv/][img]http://s17.postimg.org/lpm5rx7fv/IMG_20150414_213001658_1.jpg[/img][/url]

      [url=http://postimg.org/image/uzy9vgi5n/][img]http://s17.postimg.org/uzy9vgi5n/IMG_20150414_213028878_1.jpg[/img][/url]

      If you need any other picture, please let me know.
      Thanks for all your effort.
      Sincerly,
      Claudio

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    5. Hi Claudio,
      This picture (http://postimg.org/image/n23utt4vf/) is interesting, because those marks look like they are from the Birmingham Proof House. Are there any other marks along with these? The picture also shows W & C.S, which could be William and Charles Scott. It is interesting though that the top rib picture (http://postimg.org/image/mvq5qpvqj/) shows "LONDON", but no actual address. Perhaps this was a trade gun made by a smaller manufacturer? Are there any other markings on the insides of the action or the underside of the barrel?

      Sincerely,
      The Editor

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    6. Hi Editor
      I have examinated the rest of the barrel and i could find a litle mark like a "U" or something similar. I send you the URL to see the pictures. I hope it could help.
      The URL of them are:
      [url=http://postimg.org/image/he2b9snhf/][img]http://s5.postimg.org/he2b9snhf/IMG_20150422_201904512.jpg[/img][/url]


      [url=http://postimg.org/image/sc8ze8moz/][img]http://s5.postimg.org/sc8ze8moz/IMG_20150422_201943663.jpg[/img][/url]

      Do you have any information about William and Charles Scott?
      Thanks for all your effort.
      Sincerly,
      Claudio

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    7. Hi Claudio,

      William and Charles Scott were two brothers, who started off a gun making business in Birmingham in 1832 (William started it first and his brother joined the company a little later). From about 1832 to 1862, they were called W & C Scott. After that, William Scott's oldest son, William Middleditch Scott, joined as a partner and the company became W & C Scott & Son. Later on, William Scott's other son, James Charles Scott, also joined the company. In the beginning, the company was a "trade manufacturer", which means they were a supplier for other manufacturers (e.g.) they made barrels for Purdey. Several Birmingham and London gunmakers bought parts and complete guns from them. Quite a few manufacturers sold complete Scott guns under their own names (including quite a few top London manufacturers). They became known as a manufacturer of high quality double barreled shotguns under their own name later.

      In the US, they sold shotguns under the name of W&C Scott & Son, but in England, they were still heavily involved in the subcontracting business and were used as a part supplier by both expensive and cheap manufacturers. In fact, they were one of the largest trade manufacturers in the world at one time. Scott guns were made in A, B and C qualities. Their A quality guns were usually sold with the W & C Scott & Son name and most B and C quality guns and gun parts were usually sold under other manufacturers names, although the W&C Scott name would usually be stamped under a hidden part of the barrel.

      In 1897, they combined with Webley to form Webley & Scott, who you may have heard of, as they are famous for their revolvers and are still in business currently.

      Delete
    8. Hi Editor

      Thanks again for the complete explanation about my shotgun, you're very kind. Very full commentary.

      Therefore, I understand that I must consider that we are not facing a spurious weapon, but an original, English shotgun, made between 1932 and 1964, closer to the latter date. Could be probably "Westley" has been the lock manufacturer or trader that marketed such shotguns?.

      After all, beyond any comments, the truth is that it is a robust shotgun and I am a muzzleloader shooter that will use it as soon as posible, of course, previous study of both, black powder charges and suitable ammunition load and which of them are convenient and appropriate.

      Thank you very much for your efforts and I am in touch for any concerns to be generated.

      Sincerly,

      Claudio

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    9. Hi Claudio,
      What you've described above sounds likely (except that the date should have been 1832 to 1864, rather than 1932 to 1964). It is possible that "Westley" was the trader and bought the barrels from W&C Scott. It was common for manufacturers of that period to buy parts from several different suppliers, assemble them together and put their own name in big letters on the outside of the gun.

      Congratulations on your purchase and thank you.

      Delete
    10. Hi Editor
      Yes of course, I made a mistake in writing the dates, I wanted to say between 1832 and 1864.
      Thanks for everything
      Sincerly
      Claudio

      Delete
  2. What years would these "spurious weapons" been produced? Would they pre-date the Civil War? Thanks, Zac

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Zac,
      The practice of making fake copies of well-known makers had been going on for several years, especially during the 19th and early 20th centuries, because international trademark laws weren't strongly enforced then. Even in the 21st century, you can still find fake firearm clones. It is quite possible that some of these "spurious weapons" could have been produced before the Civil War.

      Regards,
      The Editor

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